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	<title>Comments on: Disposable News</title>
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	<description>communication. community. cognition.</description>
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		<title>By: Adam Daniel Mezei</title>
		<link>http://occamsrazr.com/2008/10/17/disposable-news/comment-page-1/#comment-2046</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Daniel Mezei</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 14:31:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://occamsrazr.com/?p=880#comment-2046</guid>
		<description>Ike,

This post just floored me, and I&#039;m upset it took me *this* long to get around to it!

I couldn&#039;t agree more with how vital this is, the need for a techno gew-gaw to remove expired/fatuous/defamatory postings. In fact, I&#039;m the direct (and sadly much too experienced!) victim of this sort of articular caching, and it&#039;s perhaps less severe in my case since the claptrap being posted isn&#039;t in English, thank the Higher Power!

When I&#039;d politely asked the editor on three separate occasions to yank the posts (once directly, by phone), or at least to remove my tri-monikered attribution from the now-defunct organization about which the article was initially penned -- the editor flatly refused.

You might be interested in this little bit of business I caught the other day by podcast at BBC&#039;s Monday Documentary, a propos to what you&#039;re talking about:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/documentaries/2008/10/081029_caucases_doc.shtml</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ike,</p>
<p>This post just floored me, and I&#8217;m upset it took me *this* long to get around to it!</p>
<p>I couldn&#8217;t agree more with how vital this is, the need for a techno gew-gaw to remove expired/fatuous/defamatory postings. In fact, I&#8217;m the direct (and sadly much too experienced!) victim of this sort of articular caching, and it&#8217;s perhaps less severe in my case since the claptrap being posted isn&#8217;t in English, thank the Higher Power!</p>
<p>When I&#8217;d politely asked the editor on three separate occasions to yank the posts (once directly, by phone), or at least to remove my tri-monikered attribution from the now-defunct organization about which the article was initially penned &#8212; the editor flatly refused.</p>
<p>You might be interested in this little bit of business I caught the other day by podcast at BBC&#8217;s Monday Documentary, a propos to what you&#8217;re talking about:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/documentaries/2008/10/081029_caucases_doc.shtml" rel="nofollow">http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/documentaries/2008/10/081029_caucases_doc.shtml</a></p>
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		<title>By: Steven Lubetkin</title>
		<link>http://occamsrazr.com/2008/10/17/disposable-news/comment-page-1/#comment-2015</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven Lubetkin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Oct 2008 10:06:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://occamsrazr.com/?p=880#comment-2015</guid>
		<description>This has even larger implications for what businesses and organizations post that later becomes obsolete, inaccurate, or the (overlooked) subject of legal agreements. When I was doing bank PR, an activist group helping a customer in a dispute with the bank posted a news release on its website accusing (by name) a bank employee of discrimination. After a legal settlement was reached it turned out that the activist group never linked the original press release to the agreed statement that the matter had been resolved and that it agreed the employee had NOT engaged in discrimination. The original accusation was dogging the (now former) employee as new prospective employers engaged in Google searches and found this item in the employee&#039;s background.

It&#039;s the Web 2.0 version of the story appearing on page one, but the correction being on page 12.

There must be a way to deal with this...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This has even larger implications for what businesses and organizations post that later becomes obsolete, inaccurate, or the (overlooked) subject of legal agreements. When I was doing bank PR, an activist group helping a customer in a dispute with the bank posted a news release on its website accusing (by name) a bank employee of discrimination. After a legal settlement was reached it turned out that the activist group never linked the original press release to the agreed statement that the matter had been resolved and that it agreed the employee had NOT engaged in discrimination. The original accusation was dogging the (now former) employee as new prospective employers engaged in Google searches and found this item in the employee&#8217;s background.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s the Web 2.0 version of the story appearing on page one, but the correction being on page 12.</p>
<p>There must be a way to deal with this&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: cooper</title>
		<link>http://occamsrazr.com/2008/10/17/disposable-news/comment-page-1/#comment-2013</link>
		<dc:creator>cooper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Oct 2008 05:36:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://occamsrazr.com/?p=880#comment-2013</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know anything about this girl or the story on her but you do make a good point. We are entering into unexplored territory - a brave new world of sorts. 

I&#039;m not sure how you get rid of things once they are cached. I have no idea how to do such with Twitter or the like. It&#039;s something which we all should be thinking about.

I have never had much use for FB because of this, and use other services of the type on a very limited basis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know anything about this girl or the story on her but you do make a good point. We are entering into unexplored territory &#8211; a brave new world of sorts. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure how you get rid of things once they are cached. I have no idea how to do such with Twitter or the like. It&#8217;s something which we all should be thinking about.</p>
<p>I have never had much use for FB because of this, and use other services of the type on a very limited basis.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Collins</title>
		<link>http://occamsrazr.com/2008/10/17/disposable-news/comment-page-1/#comment-5882</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Collins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Oct 2008 21:32:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://occamsrazr.com/?p=880#comment-5882</guid>
		<description>&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_comment&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_twitter_username&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_content&quot;&gt;RT @ikepigott: Can we find a better way to control information online? http://tinyurl.com/6ccsz9&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class="topsy_trackback_comment"><span class="topsy_twitter_username"><span class="topsy_trackback_content">RT @ikepigott: Can we find a better way to control information online? <a href="http://tinyurl.com/6ccsz9" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/6ccsz9</a></span></span></span></p>
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		<title>By: Ike</title>
		<link>http://occamsrazr.com/2008/10/17/disposable-news/comment-page-1/#comment-2011</link>
		<dc:creator>Ike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Oct 2008 16:44:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://occamsrazr.com/?p=880#comment-2011</guid>
		<description>BL, I totally understand.  And I applaud you for putting your personal ethics and feelings for this young woman ahead of someone else&#039;s notion of &quot;journalistic integrity.&quot;

Your question is a fair one.  Do I want PR firms engaging in this as a regular tactic?  No.  That&#039;s why it should come with a big, fat, public stamp that indicates it could be pulled from all archives.

While some bloggers do indeed aspire to be considered &quot;citizen journalists,&quot; I would posit that many well-meaning bloggers and Twitterati who helped publicize the disappearance would like for a clean way to yank it from the cyber-record.  Maybe it&#039;s still fresh enough you can extract it.  Maybe not.

Heck, even the &quot;Recall this Message&quot; feature in Outlook only works 60% of the time.

Thanks for joining the discussion.  And we do agree, the vast majority of information online deserves to stay there -- but can we come up with a clean solution for instances like this one that can harm down the road?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BL, I totally understand.  And I applaud you for putting your personal ethics and feelings for this young woman ahead of someone else&#8217;s notion of &#8220;journalistic integrity.&#8221;</p>
<p>Your question is a fair one.  Do I want PR firms engaging in this as a regular tactic?  No.  That&#8217;s why it should come with a big, fat, public stamp that indicates it could be pulled from all archives.</p>
<p>While some bloggers do indeed aspire to be considered &#8220;citizen journalists,&#8221; I would posit that many well-meaning bloggers and Twitterati who helped publicize the disappearance would like for a clean way to yank it from the cyber-record.  Maybe it&#8217;s still fresh enough you can extract it.  Maybe not.</p>
<p>Heck, even the &#8220;Recall this Message&#8221; feature in Outlook only works 60% of the time.</p>
<p>Thanks for joining the discussion.  And we do agree, the vast majority of information online deserves to stay there &#8212; but can we come up with a clean solution for instances like this one that can harm down the road?</p>
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		<title>By: BL Ochman</title>
		<link>http://occamsrazr.com/2008/10/17/disposable-news/comment-page-1/#comment-2010</link>
		<dc:creator>BL Ochman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Oct 2008 16:33:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://occamsrazr.com/?p=880#comment-2010</guid>
		<description>Ike - you raise interesting, but dangerous points. Information is not disposable and the fact that what goes online stays online comes with the territory.

It is probably not journalistically correct to take down the posts, but it is ethically and humanly correct IMO, and that&#039;s why I did it.

I am sorry for the young woman and the turmoil she and her family have obviously experienced. It was a value judgment on my part to take the post down and I think a lot of other bloggers may follow.

BUT, there are too many ways to abuse posts marked &quot;disposable&quot; or temporary.

And the way life is, there are consequences for our actions. 

Nobody trusts corporations or PR firms now. Believe me, giving them the opportunity to disappear news would not help anything.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ike &#8211; you raise interesting, but dangerous points. Information is not disposable and the fact that what goes online stays online comes with the territory.</p>
<p>It is probably not journalistically correct to take down the posts, but it is ethically and humanly correct IMO, and that&#8217;s why I did it.</p>
<p>I am sorry for the young woman and the turmoil she and her family have obviously experienced. It was a value judgment on my part to take the post down and I think a lot of other bloggers may follow.</p>
<p>BUT, there are too many ways to abuse posts marked &#8220;disposable&#8221; or temporary.</p>
<p>And the way life is, there are consequences for our actions. </p>
<p>Nobody trusts corporations or PR firms now. Believe me, giving them the opportunity to disappear news would not help anything.</p>
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		<title>By: Ike</title>
		<link>http://occamsrazr.com/2008/10/17/disposable-news/comment-page-1/#comment-2009</link>
		<dc:creator>Ike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Oct 2008 16:10:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://occamsrazr.com/?p=880#comment-2009</guid>
		<description>@Shannon - 

That&#039;s why I wouldn&#039;t mind some type of common, recognized and visible flag that says &quot;This Page is subject to search-engine elimination.&quot;  One could then assume that anything without it was meant to be more &quot;permanent.&quot;

Just editing the pages doesn&#039;t do anything about clearing Google&#039;s cached archives.

I don&#039;t have a good answer about the Twitter-effect.

@Deb - 

If PR firms are posting information that is flagged as &quot;disposable,&quot; then you shouldn&#039;t give it much stock.  (Unless it is precisely the sort of information I describe above, which wouldn&#039;t likely be on a corporate site anyway.)

As to the recent stock debacles, you mention a couple of cases where the existence of the archives actually helped.  There was a way to compare the supposedly &quot;new&quot; information with the old, make a match, and debunk the new posting.

By all means, it&#039;s not a perfect system.  As Shannon points out, there are some existing protocols that might help, but they are beyond the ability of the average user and are not as transparent as we might like.

If there is the existence of a &quot;magic key&quot; that can yank a page out of history, those reading it today deserve to know about it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Shannon &#8211; </p>
<p>That&#8217;s why I wouldn&#8217;t mind some type of common, recognized and visible flag that says &#8220;This Page is subject to search-engine elimination.&#8221;  One could then assume that anything without it was meant to be more &#8220;permanent.&#8221;</p>
<p>Just editing the pages doesn&#8217;t do anything about clearing Google&#8217;s cached archives.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t have a good answer about the Twitter-effect.</p>
<p>@Deb &#8211; </p>
<p>If PR firms are posting information that is flagged as &#8220;disposable,&#8221; then you shouldn&#8217;t give it much stock.  (Unless it is precisely the sort of information I describe above, which wouldn&#8217;t likely be on a corporate site anyway.)</p>
<p>As to the recent stock debacles, you mention a couple of cases where the existence of the archives actually helped.  There was a way to compare the supposedly &#8220;new&#8221; information with the old, make a match, and debunk the new posting.</p>
<p>By all means, it&#8217;s not a perfect system.  As Shannon points out, there are some existing protocols that might help, but they are beyond the ability of the average user and are not as transparent as we might like.</p>
<p>If there is the existence of a &#8220;magic key&#8221; that can yank a page out of history, those reading it today deserve to know about it.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Woodruff</title>
		<link>http://occamsrazr.com/2008/10/17/disposable-news/comment-page-1/#comment-2008</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Woodruff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Oct 2008 16:05:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://occamsrazr.com/?p=880#comment-2008</guid>
		<description>This is a really good point. Not sure what the answer is, but you bring up a very important issue. It&#039;s hard to apply an eraser to this info-rich virtual world!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a really good point. Not sure what the answer is, but you bring up a very important issue. It&#8217;s hard to apply an eraser to this info-rich virtual world!</p>
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		<title>By: Deb Budd</title>
		<link>http://occamsrazr.com/2008/10/17/disposable-news/comment-page-1/#comment-2007</link>
		<dc:creator>Deb Budd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Oct 2008 15:57:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://occamsrazr.com/?p=880#comment-2007</guid>
		<description>Interesting thoughts... Might this also allow PR firms and businesses to &quot;bury&quot; old crises?  This tactic might have averted recent stock debacles like the years-old news item about a United Airlines bankruptcy, and the more recent Apple/&quot;Steve Jobs is dead&quot; rumor, both of which created huge stock sell-offs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting thoughts&#8230; Might this also allow PR firms and businesses to &#8220;bury&#8221; old crises?  This tactic might have averted recent stock debacles like the years-old news item about a United Airlines bankruptcy, and the more recent Apple/&#8221;Steve Jobs is dead&#8221; rumor, both of which created huge stock sell-offs.</p>
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		<title>By: Shannon Whitley</title>
		<link>http://occamsrazr.com/2008/10/17/disposable-news/comment-page-1/#comment-2006</link>
		<dc:creator>Shannon Whitley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Oct 2008 15:51:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://occamsrazr.com/?p=880#comment-2006</guid>
		<description>HTML pages do have a way to indicate an expiration date, but they are rarely used correctly:

[meta http-equiv=&quot;expires&quot; content=&quot;Wed, 26 Feb 1997 08:21:57 GMT&quot;]

Could the search engines honor these expirations -- and could we avoid their use just to clear the browser cache?  What do we do about pages (like Twitter) on which we have no control?  I think the tools are there if we use them properly, but as you know that&#039;s much easier said than done.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>HTML pages do have a way to indicate an expiration date, but they are rarely used correctly:</p>
<p>[meta http-equiv="expires" content="Wed, 26 Feb 1997 08:21:57 GMT"]</p>
<p>Could the search engines honor these expirations &#8212; and could we avoid their use just to clear the browser cache?  What do we do about pages (like Twitter) on which we have no control?  I think the tools are there if we use them properly, but as you know that&#8217;s much easier said than done.</p>
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